Pro Life or Pro Choice?

Vaseline wrote:

Also, do you even realise what women go through to have a baby? Sorry to be blunt but a womens vagina is never the same again after having a child. Never mind the emotional impact it has on her.

This.

Garrus wrote:

Now that's funny.

Garrus wrote:

Were you born with this ability to always be funny?

Matieu Shepard wrote:

Well let's see, where do I start...

1) "However, if a woman got pregnant purposely and wanted a baby, she then doesnt have a right to get an abortion." Right, if the woman WANTED the baby, she wouldn't get an abortion, that ruins the entire point of WANTING a child.

2) View my last post, this thread is made to discuss abortions, we're not going into why a woman got pregnant in the first place, so don't go changing the subject when you run out of ideas of why your right.

3) Don't assume somebody agrees with you, that's just ignorant of somebody elses opinions. When somebody seems clear to you it's usually not to another person.

4) If somebody doesn't want to have a child, you shouldn't start posting that money will change that. If people don't want to do something, then your just bribing them to go against their beliefs. That's like telling somebody who doesn't believe in slavery that if you pay them money, they should believe in slavery.

5) Don't start quoting the 9th amendment, there are quite a few people on these forums not in America, if your going to go quoting constitutions, then you should include those of other countries. Don't assume that everybody looks up to America and knows and follows their laws.

Ok so Number 1. ugh i dont want to use this example, exspecailly here. Ugh ok im about to talk about something really personal, and i know most of you will want to make sick jokes towards me about it, but im going to ask that you dont. However, if you do i wont hate you for it, just dont expect me to talk back to you about it.

Ok so i was dating my ex girlfriend Kristen for about 2 in a half years now. We were going through a really serious part in our relationship and i was thinking about leaving her. She stopped taking the pill and got pregnant. She thought i would agree to marry her if I did that. I didn't......... She got the abortion after my continued refusal. However, I didnt expect her to get an abortion, but thats besides the point.
Point is she got an abortion after already deciding to get pregnant, the bitch killed my child. I said i would come see him as much as possible or for her to just give him over to me. ugh nvm i dont need to go into those details..... The point is she got an abortion after choosing to get pregnant. She murdered my child.
Also i know alot of you fuckers are going to say some really fucked up comments about she did the kid a favor. being raised by me is worse than death ect ect. I originally thought i would be ok with just ignoring it but i want to ask the mods to please not allow them to say that shit.

Ok 2nd part...................
I didnt run out of ideas as to why i was right. I more or less agreed with both sides of the argument. At least on a moral stand point. I was trying to move us into something we could all agree on. A subject directly related to abortions and something I thought we could all agree on. My intentions were to unify this thread. I like seeing people work together / agreeing particularly after they were arguing / fighting with one another.

3rd Part. I did wrongly assume that people would agree on this bit about being aloud to receive money for the pain and suffering of pregnancy. I was wrong. You were right about me being ignorant here. I apologize.

4th. I dont agree with you here. Paying someone to accomadate the pain of child birth and pregnancy doesnt seem wrong to me. It doesnt seem like a bribe.
I would expect someone to offer someone else (throwing out a number here) 1.000,000 dollars for a kidney in order to save their child's life.
Also while im not 100% sure but isnt a bribe suppose to be an incentive for someone to do something illegal? In this case i see it as an "offer" to not commit murder and to allow them give the child a good home.
So in that sense it is more like the opposite extreme of a bribe.

5th If someone needs me to explain the 9th amendment all the need to do is ask. the 9th amendment is paticulary easy to understand. It was an amendment to guarantee protection over all obvious things. For example breathing, push ups, swimming, walking. And its not very suprising that the right to do what you want with your body is also protected. ( i wonder if that also counts for drug use, if they didnt specify...... no nvm, it would never work) However, I will agree with you on the most part for this one, because it was so short to explain i should of added it in their. I was afraid i had already passed the TLDR limit though, and wanted people to read it.

Also i dont want to make another individual reply so ill reply here to Vase.

Yes i am well aware of what women go through during pregnancy Vase.
I have also been informed of what it is like to give birth. The same women have also told me that kidney stones are worse than giving birth if you only consider the pain. I have had 7 kidney stones within my lifetime. The largest one made it so, ugh well i think that last part is a little to much information.

Also my Biology 1 professor who subbed for about 4 weeks would talk about pregnancy for half the lecture sometimes....... It wasnt even on the test but i appreciated the insight.


Ok so i think i covered everything. I hope we have come to a better understanding of one another Matieu, However, im not going to assume we have in appreciation of your 3rd point. So if you have more questions ill be here.

tl;dr

DarthNemis wrote:

Matieu Shepard wrote:

Well let's see, where do I start...

1) "However, if a woman got pregnant purposely and wanted a baby, she then doesnt have a right to get an abortion." Right, if the woman WANTED the baby, she wouldn't get an abortion, that ruins the entire point of WANTING a child.

2) View my last post, this thread is made to discuss abortions, we're not going into why a woman got pregnant in the first place, so don't go changing the subject when you run out of ideas of why your right.

3) Don't assume somebody agrees with you, that's just ignorant of somebody elses opinions. When somebody seems clear to you it's usually not to another person.

4) If somebody doesn't want to have a child, you shouldn't start posting that money will change that. If people don't want to do something, then your just bribing them to go against their beliefs. That's like telling somebody who doesn't believe in slavery that if you pay them money, they should believe in slavery.

5) Don't start quoting the 9th amendment, there are quite a few people on these forums not in America, if your going to go quoting constitutions, then you should include those of other countries. Don't assume that everybody looks up to America and knows and follows their laws.

Ok so Number 1. ugh i dont want to use this example, exspecailly here. Ugh ok im about to talk about something really personal, and i know most of you will want to make sick jokes towards me about it, but im going to ask that you dont. However, if you do i wont hate you for it, just dont expect me to talk back to you about it.

Ok so i was dating my ex girlfriend Kristen for about 2 in a half years now. We were going through a really serious part in our relationship and i was thinking about leaving her. She stopped taking the pill and got pregnant. She thought i would agree to marry her if I did that. I didn't......... She got the abortion after my continued refusal. However, I didnt expect her to get an abortion, but thats besides the point.
Point is she got an abortion after already deciding to get pregnant, the bitch killed my child. I said i would come see him as much as possible or for her to just give him over to me. ugh nvm i dont need to go into those details..... The point is she got an abortion after choosing to get pregnant. She murdered my child.
Also i know alot of you fuckers are going to say some really fucked up comments about she did the kid a favor. being raised by me is worse than death ect ect. I originally thought i would be ok with just ignoring it but i want to ask the mods to please not allow them to say that shit.

Ok 2nd part...................
I didnt run out of ideas as to why i was right. I more or less agreed with both sides of the argument. At least on a moral stand point. I was trying to move us into something we could all agree on. A subject directly related to abortions and something I thought we could all agree on. My intentions were to unify this thread. I like seeing people work together / agreeing particularly after they were arguing / fighting with one another.

3rd Part. I did wrongly assume that people would agree on this bit about being aloud to receive money for the pain and suffering of pregnancy. I was wrong. You were right about me being ignorant here. I apologize.

4th. I dont agree with you here. Paying someone to accomadate the pain of child birth and pregnancy doesnt seem wrong to me. It doesnt seem like a bribe.
I would expect someone to offer someone else (throwing out a number here) 1.000,000 dollars for a kidney in order to save their child's life.
Also while im not 100% sure but isnt a bribe suppose to be an incentive for someone to do something illegal? In this case i see it as an "offer" to not commit murder and to allow them give the child a good home.
So in that sense it is more like the opposite extreme of a bribe.

5th If someone needs me to explain the 9th amendment all the need to do is ask. the 9th amendment is paticulary easy to understand. It was an amendment to guarantee protection over all obvious things. For example breathing, push ups, swimming, walking. And its not very suprising that the right to do what you want with your body is also protected. ( i wonder if that also counts for drug use, if they didnt specify...... no nvm, it would never work) However, I will agree with you on the most part for this one, because it was so short to explain i should of added it in their. I was afraid i had already passed the TLDR limit though, and wanted people to read it.

Also i dont want to make another individual reply so ill reply here to Vase.

Yes i am well aware of what women go through during pregnancy Vase.
I have also been informed of what it is like to give birth. The same women have also told me that kidney stones are worse than giving birth if you only consider the pain. I have had 7 kidney stones within my lifetime. The largest one made it so, ugh well i think that last part is a little to much information.

Also my Biology 1 professor who subbed for about 4 weeks would talk about pregnancy for half the lecture sometimes....... It wasnt even on the test but i appreciated the insight.


Ok so i think i covered everything. I hope we have come to a better understanding of one another Matieu, However, im not going to assume we have in appreciation of your 3rd point. So if you have more questions ill be here.

Ridiculous.

Kidney stones compared to child birth.

Hilarious.

Matieu Shepard wrote:

tl;dr

<3

It was tl:dr? I was smart enough to foe him so my intelligence level won't plummet. So I don't know

I'll respond to parts of your post Nemis, as other parts really didn't make much of a point saying they needed a response.

1) I'm sorry for your issue with your ex, though what I said still stands. I do agree, however, that their are, rather rare examples that disprove my point.

2) The Definition of Bribe: Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct.
By that Definition, a woman who wants an abortion, and is then paid money to change their conduct, conduct, in this situation, representing getting an abortion or not, shows that giving money to do something against their views is a bribe.

3) At the 9th Amendment, even knowing the 9th Amendment doesn't really do much. Less then 1/10th of the worlds population lives in America, as such, less then 1/10th of the world doesn't abide by the laws and rules laid down int he Constitution. Even if somebody from England or Australia knows what the 9th Amendment is, it changes nothing, because they don't have that 9th Amendment in their country.

4) Putting in the end "If you have any more questions" is a rather pompous view, as it is implying that you are correct, and you are just educating me, which in incorrect on this situation, as opinions have no correct or incorrect. If you were explaining to me facts, then you could say if I have questions. Until then, do not act like my superior.

Matieu Shepard wrote:

I'll respond to parts of your post Nemis, as other parts really didn't make much of a point saying they needed a response.

1) I'm sorry for your issue with your ex, though what I said still stands. I do agree, however, that their are, rather rare examples that disprove my point.

2) The Definition of Bribe: Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct.
By that Definition, a woman who wants an abortion, and is then paid money to change their conduct, conduct, in this situation, representing getting an abortion or not, shows that giving money to do something against their views is a bribe.

3) At the 9th Amendment, even knowing the 9th Amendment doesn't really do much. Less then 1/10th of the worlds population lives in America, as such, less then 1/10th of the world doesn't abide by the laws and rules laid down int he Constitution. Even if somebody from England or Australia knows what the 9th Amendment is, it changes nothing, because they don't have that 9th Amendment in their country.

4) Putting in the end "If you have any more questions" is a rather pompous view, as it is implying that you are correct, and you are just educating me, which in incorrect on this situation, as opinions have no correct or incorrect. If you were explaining to me facts, then you could say if I have questions. Until then, do not act like my superior.

2. Ok while i still don't understand what the "legal definition of a position of trust is" I will have to agree with you that you are right and it would be classified as a bribe. I now only think that bribery in this case should perhaps be legalized lol. No for real. I do think if a couple wants a child and cant have one that their should be a way to legally compensate a girl to go through pregnancy if she wants to. Perhaps it should simply be put out their so their is no "position of trust" just an option that people hear about. ( again i don't know what the definition of a position of trust, and im afraid this situation might not avoid it, if the government is filling that role. )

3. The constitution effects all "persons" Yes certain parts will specifically talk about how they effect the "American citizens" but that is why the say they specifically say that.
Also the Constitution talks about everyone's natural born inalienable rights. So its everyone. However, after reflecting a bit on this. Your right for the most part. Others will look at the 9th amendment and think its garbage just because they arnt american. So it was useless for this discussion. I should of used something like most philosophers (would of written this alot better) believe such obvious things to be refereed to as unalienable ect ect ect.

4. Ok that was totally misinterpreted. And i think your jumping the gun a little by assuming that. I'm rereading it and i can sort of see how you could of thought that, but i think its more likely that it would of been interpreted in the way i intended it. Why would i talk to you in such a way after i admitted to being wrong in your 3rd point? It would totally be out of line, and i was actually trying really hard to sound respectful in that last part.....
If you have anymore questions was suppose to imply that im trying to respect your 3rd point in which i was wrong in, and im not assume you now understand my argument.

But yea If you have anymore questions does sound like something a college professor would say. and college professors are in a superior position arguably. So yea i can see how you saw that. poor choice of words on my part.

Well this is wrapping up, it seems all that's left is 2. I think this was a misinterpretation on my part. I didn't realize you were saying that a couple who couldn't have children was paying somebody to have a child for them. I thought you were saying something more along the lines of a woman having a child, then wanting an abortion, where her boyfriend or the person she had sex with was giving her money not to have an abortion. My mistake for misunderstanding you.

Matieu Shepard wrote:

Well this is wrapping up, it seems all that's left is 2. I think this was a misinterpretation on my part. I didn't realize you were saying that a couple who couldn't have children was paying somebody to have a child for them. I thought you were saying something more along the lines of a woman having a child, then wanting an abortion, where her boyfriend or the person she had sex with was giving her money not to have an abortion. My mistake for misunderstanding you.

O np. I think its mostly my fault for not being very clear. I think branch was the only one to think i was talking about a form of adoption. So it must of had to do with the way i typed it out. My grammar does suck after all.

This is one thing I like about these forums: we can discuss stuff here that we could never touch in the SWTOR OT forum, like abortion and religion. This also means that I don't have to hold back my punches at the ignorant religious types who are in the "pro-life" camp. Woot.

Grimeth wrote:

RagnarokJC wrote:

This is one thing I like about these forums: we can discuss stuff here that we could never touch in the SWTOR OT forum, like abortion and religion. This also means that I don't have to hold back my punches at the ignorant religious types who are in the "pro-life" camp. Woot.

Dude, don't get mad because you're wrong. Just accept it, man.

Grimeth wrote:

Yeah... I'm obviously mad because I'm wrong...

Yeah...

I don't get the whole its the women's choice to have an abortion. I mean a common argument is they want the man too put just as much in as the women. So shouldn't the man also have too pay. I know if it was me I would give them women everything not to get the abortion and I would take the child myself.

RagnarokJC wrote:

This is one thing I like about these forums: we can discuss stuff here that we could never touch in the SWTOR OT forum, like abortion and religion. This also means that I don't have to hold back my punches at the ignorant religious types who are in the "pro-life" camp. Woot.

As Vice President of the guild I'm going too have to ask you to tone down your derogative messages towards Christians, or any religion in particular. You have EVERY right to voice your opinion and debate, but do not belittle someone's personal beliefs in doing so. We are a tolerant community but will not agree on harassment of any sort.

*Breaks out teh Rules*

1) No highly abusive, harrassing, threatening or racist posts. We are a community here in the Alliance, one that works in a friendly manner, and anything disrupting this community through unreasonable/harsh posting will be dealt with severely.

Garrus wrote:

RagnarokJC wrote:

This is one thing I like about these forums: we can discuss stuff here that we could never touch in the SWTOR OT forum, like abortion and religion. This also means that I don't have to hold back my punches at the ignorant religious types who are in the "pro-life" camp. Woot.

As Vice President of the guild I'm going too have to ask you to tone down your derogative messages towards Christians, or any religion in particular. You have EVERY right to voice your opinion and debate, but do not belittle someone's personal beliefs in doing so. We are a tolerant community but will not agree on harassment of any sort.

*Breaks out teh Rules*

1) No highly abusive, harrassing, threatening or racist posts. We are a community here in the Alliance, one that works in a friendly manner, and anything disrupting this community through unreasonable/harsh posting will be dealt with severely.

Mort beat you to it...

TheMortonator. wrote:

RagnarokJC wrote:

This is one thing I like about these forums: we can discuss stuff here that we could never touch in the SWTOR OT forum, like abortion and religion. This also means that I don't have to hold back my punches at the ignorant religious types who are in the "pro-life" camp. Woot.

Scott wrote:

1) No highly abusive, harrassing, threatening or racist posts. We are a community here in the Alliance, one that works in a friendly manner, and anything disrupting this community through unreasonable/harsh posting will be dealt with severely.

Vaseline wrote:

Garrus wrote:

RagnarokJC wrote:

This is one thing I like about these forums: we can discuss stuff here that we could never touch in the SWTOR OT forum, like abortion and religion. This also means that I don't have to hold back my punches at the ignorant religious types who are in the "pro-life" camp. Woot.

As Vice President of the guild I'm going too have to ask you to tone down your derogative messages towards Christians, or any religion in particular. You have EVERY right to voice your opinion and debate, but do not belittle someone's personal beliefs in doing so. We are a tolerant community but will not agree on harassment of any sort.

*Breaks out teh Rules*

1) No highly abusive, harrassing, threatening or racist posts. We are a community here in the Alliance, one that works in a friendly manner, and anything disrupting this community through unreasonable/harsh posting will be dealt with severely.

Mort beat you to it...

TheMortonator. wrote:

RagnarokJC wrote:

This is one thing I like about these forums: we can discuss stuff here that we could never touch in the SWTOR OT forum, like abortion and religion. This also means that I don't have to hold back my punches at the ignorant religious types who are in the "pro-life" camp. Woot.

Scott wrote:

1) No highly abusive, harrassing, threatening or racist posts. We are a community here in the Alliance, one that works in a friendly manner, and anything disrupting this community through unreasonable/harsh posting will be dealt with severely.

No comment.

Garrus wrote:

RagnarokJC wrote:

This is one thing I like about these forums: we can discuss stuff here that we could never touch in the SWTOR OT forum, like abortion and religion. This also means that I don't have to hold back my punches at the ignorant religious types who are in the "pro-life" camp. Woot.

As Vice President of the guild I'm going too have to ask you to tone down your derogative messages towards Christians, or any religion in particular. You have EVERY right to voice your opinion and debate, but do not belittle someone's personal beliefs in doing so. We are a tolerant community but will not agree on harassment of any sort.

*Breaks out teh Rules*

1) No highly abusive, harrassing, threatening or racist posts. We are a community here in the Alliance, one that works in a friendly manner, and anything disrupting this community through unreasonable/harsh posting will be dealt with severely.

Hokay. I will stop posting in this thread, as topics like this generally lead to much unhappiness anyway.